[ballast_regime]

I have remained in an eGullet exile for long enough. It's about high-time I crawled out of the woodwork, even if for two minutes, and offered a rebuttal or two to adrober.

First off, why does "passion" exist at the opposite of some spectrum (whose shape or basic contours I cannot even begin to imagine) than "perfection?" Why are the two not coterminous? It's silly to believe that high-minded technique cannot coexist with passion, much less that they are polar opposites. Charlie Trotter and Thomas Keller are two perfect examples of such a nexus. Every chef I've known who has worked for either has commented about the level of fanaticism contained within both, and I mean fanaticism of every kind: love, anger, attention to detail, etc. In fact, a former Trotter sous chef I was talking to said the reason his restaurant (which has received a lot of national attention) isn't better is because he isn't as passionate as Trotter.

Secondly, adrober, you compare a certain high-end strain of cooking to science, as if the two are completely different. Thing is, almost every dish in any culinary repertoire exists as a result of an extended trial-and-error process that spans generations. Not too dissimilar from the scientific method when you get down to it. Sure, many chefs are trying to speed the process or rework classics or whatever, but why not?

Lastly, I have two asides: My experience of Trotter's is completely different than yours. What strikes me most about Trotter's cuisine is how sloppy and randomized it is, in every aspect, especially when compared with other North American restaurants that operate at his level. E.g., the way he builds and combines flavor, his horizontal style of plating, and so on. (This isn't a knock on his restaurant, as it's one my three or four favorites in the country.) Additionally, why is it that you were not moved by the high-end cuisine you've encountered, when I've been giddied to the point of tears? Sure, my mom or dad would probably stir such food around on the Limoges, and then ask the head waiter for some barbeque. But there are many people, even many eGulls, who would give two-thirds of their internal organs to eat at Per Se. Understand, I'm not trying to invalidate your experiences; rather, I just want to point out that although something may be "cerebrally cool" for one person, it may be an experiential mindfuck for another.

Much peace,

Ian Lowe
ballast/regime

This post has been edited by ballast_regime: 10 May 2004 - 06:25 PM

[Pan]

ballast_regime, on May 10 2004, 09:23 PM, said:

But there are many people, even many eGulls, who would give two-thirds of their internal organs to eat at Per Se.

I get your point, but what a painful image.

[marcus]

ballast_regime, on May 10 2004, 06:23 PM, said:

My experience of Trotter's is completely different than yours. What strikes me most about Trotter's cuisine is how sloppy and randomized it is, in every aspect, especially when compared with other North American restaurants that operate at his level. E.g., the way he builds and combines flavor, his horizontal style of plating, and so on. (This isn't a knock on his restaurant, as it's one my three or four favorites in the country.)

Your use of language must be very different than my own. How can this not be taken as a very serious criticism? I do agree with your comment, which is one of the reasons that I don't like Trotter's at all.

[Fat Guy]

Some interesting discussion of Per Se today in the article Who Really Cooks Your Food?, by Julia Moskin. After documenting Keller's strategy for the phased Per Se opening and French Laundry reopening, the article goes on to say:

Quote

Instead, shortly after its Feb. 16 opening, Per Se was closed by a fire in the kitchen. Mr. Ziebold gave notice. From New York, Mr. Keller is managing the (delayed) reopening of the French Laundry; he has not yet named a chef de cuisine there. And Per Se quietly reopened on May 1, with Mr. Benno in charge at the stove on six days' experience, facing a now-ravenous New York audience.

"Obviously, I am incredibly anxious," Mr. Keller said. "I've spent years trying to make sure this wouldn't happen. One faulty electric cable, and that was that."

Aside from the lack of supportiveness in the above quote -- which should have said "I have confidence in my people. Period." -- it's interesting that the Ziebold departure has received so little ink. Although, when the name of his replacement becomes public knowledge, it will make a big splash -- I promise.

Not that the world needed another article about how -- surprise! -- the chef isn't always in the kitchen, but this one is at least worth reading for the ancillary information.

[Stone]

ballast_regime, on May 10 2004, 08:23 PM, said:

But there are many people, even many eGulls, who would give two-thirds of their internal organs to eat at Per Se.

I've got room in my reservation. Send photos of the offered organs. (Cash accepted in lieu of flesh.)

[Fat Guy]

(A new brain would be best.)

[Stone]

Fat Guy, on May 12 2004, 09:18 AM, said:

(A new brain would be best.)

Cute.

[bloviatrix]

Does anyone have experience making reservations through American Express? Would they be able to secure me a table more than 60 days in advance?

[docsconz]

When the original date for reservations opened back in January I was able to get a reservation for myself faster than American Express was, even though I was considered by them to be a "priority" due to an earlier screw-up. Nevertheless it wouldn't hurt to try both ang go with whoever gets through first.

[russ parsons]

Fat Guy, on May 12 2004, 02:10 PM, said:

quoted someone saying:

Quote

Instead, shortly after its Feb. 16 opening, Per Se was closed by a fire in the kitchen. Mr. Ziebold gave notice. From New York, Mr. Keller is managing the (delayed) reopening of the French Laundry; he has not yet named a chef de cuisine there. And Per Se quietly reopened on May 1, with Mr. Benno in charge at the stove on six days' experience, facing a now-ravenous New York audience.

i haven't talked to thomas about this in a while, but i do know that eric actually gave notice last spring and had remained on as a personal favor to thomas and the staff to help get the french laundry back up and running. i don't know how long he is/was planning on staying around, but i do know that he has a deal already done to open his own place in washington dc. he certainly isn't bailing, rather, he went out of his way to take one for the team.

[Fat Guy]

There are a few misleading implications in that passage, standing alone: 1) It implies that Ziebold gave notice in the middle of the reconstruction after the fire, and 2) It implies that Benno is alone at Per Se, whereas I'm under the impression that Keller is there -- not that it matters, because Benno is perfectly capable of running that kitchen according to Keller's standards, and 3) It implies that Benno's sum total of experience with Keller is 6 days when in fact he was at French Laundry for something like a year before the Per Se opening.

[cbarre02]

could the replacement for Ziebold be a former French Laundry Employee, who is rumored to be leaving his current chefs postition?

[jeffj]

Quote

could the replacement for Ziebold be a former French Laundry Employee, who is rumored to be leaving his current chefs postition?

I'd highly doubt that. I think chefg has made it clear that he'd love to eventually take his style of cuisine to a more prominent scene (ie New York) but I doubt he'd return to FL and try to mold back into the Keller style. Just my own thoughts.

-j

[bilrus]

russ parsons, on May 12 2004, 12:46 PM, said:

but i do know that he has a deal already done to open his own place in washington dc.

That has been pretty well known (at least here on eGullet and in the Sietsema chats) for a while here in DC.

[cbarre02]

jeffj... you are totally right, i guess it was just wisheful thinking.

[Fat Guy]

It's noted in the article that he's going to be the chef at the Mandarin Oriental in DC -- not sure if you can count that as "his" place, unless it's a concession, but whatever -- but in two places it implies that he resigned last month, which is certainly not the case.

In terms of his replacement, it seems one has been designated but not yet signed-on-the-dotted-line and announced. As soon as we get the official word, we'll post something.

[Mark Sommelier]

Fat Guy, on May 12 2004, 01:59 PM, said:

It's noted in the article that he's going to be the chef at the Mandarin Oriental in DC -- not sure if you can count that as "his" place, unless it's a concession, but whatever -- but in two places it implies that he resigned last month, which is certainly not the case.

In terms of his replacement, it seems one has been designated but not yet signed-on-the-dotted-line and announced. As soon as we get the official word, we'll post something.

Hidemasa Yamamoto is the executive chef of the new Mandarin Oriental in DC. Eric will be the chef of the signature fine dining restaurant when it opens later this year.

[dr_memory]

At the risk of asking a relatively straightforward question in the midst of all of the more metaphysical hand-wringing on this thread... does anyone here remember offhand whether Per Se's confirmation policy is 2 or 3 days prior to the reservation? Like an idiot, I have lost the piece of paper on which I jotted it down, and their website is singularly unhelpful on the topic.

[robert40]

dr_memory, on May 12 2004, 09:26 PM, said:

At the risk of asking a relatively straightforward question in the midst of all of the more metaphysical hand-wringing on this thread... does anyone here remember offhand whether Per Se's confirmation policy is 2 or 3 days prior to the reservation?  Like an idiot, I have lost the piece of paper on which I jotted it down, and their website is singularly unhelpful on the topic.

It is two day's.

[LESider]

russ parsons, on May 10 2004, 10:11 AM, said:

2) again, i haven't eaten at per se, but i have eaten pretty often at the french laundry and the thing that inspires me about that restaurant is exactly that keller is able to wed the intellectual and the passionate. almost every time i eat there i have a dish that makes me throw back my head with laughter at the surprising combination of flavors and the sheer unexpected deliciousness of it.

Russ's comment is a great description of how surprsed I was by the Truffled Popcorn Per Se was giving away as a taster on Chef's Night Out last week. It was pretty clever

[slkinsey]

Admin: you may note that a certain discussion has been excised from this thread. This thread is for discussing Per Se and the food at Per Se, and I would kindly ask that it remain on that topic. It is not for metadiscussion as to who is qualified to have which opinions, etc.

If you would like to have that discussion, I invite you to direct your attention to the "New Topic" button at the top of the page. Anyone who would like their excised material forwarded to them for inclusion in such a thread may contact me via PM.

Now, returning to your regularly scheduled discussion about Per Se...

[BJL]

Back to the food.......... I had read in a chowhound review posted today about subsititutions - the writer indicated the staff was very accomodating to changes on the tasting menu. He also mentioned that they went so far as to allow 2 diners to ensure that they each received a different dish for each course. My companion and I love to share and trade plates. Has anyone else had this experience at Per Se or French Laundry? Is it possible to get 2 different tasting menus for the table to avoid repitition?

[russ parsons]

they do seem to take a masochistic thrill in this. i've been at a table for 5 where almost every course each diner got a different dish, usually grouped around some sort of theme. i particularly remember one that was "battle lobster", where each dish showed off a different aspect of lobster flavor or texture. really a tour de force.

This post has been edited by russ parsons: 13 May 2004 - 02:48 PM

[rdailey]

FL has always been extremely accomodating to diners and allow them to mix and match courses as they wish. As Russ says, they actually seem get happily excited when you make changes. The last time I was there, there was a braised short rib on the tasting menu that wasn't on the 5-course menu. I really wanted it, and when I asked, they said it was no problem at all. They even offered to give me more short rib than what was being served for the tasting.

[Fat Guy]

We had the opposite experience at French Laundry: there was one course on the tasting that my wife didn't want -- one of the meat courses -- and she wanted to substitute something else for it. There was a tuna dish on the five-course that looked like it would make a good substitution but the waiter was very resistant to making the change. We asked him to ask the kitchen, and he came back and suggested a pasta instead. So I said, if it's a question of the dish being more expensive, we'll gladly pay an upgrade fee, and if it's a question of low inventory we'll gladly shut up, but if the dish is available what possible reason could you have for not accommodating us? He returned to the kitchen and came back with the report that it's a large portion and "Thomas doesn't like to waste food." Had I known how tiny the portions are at French Laundry, I'd have laughed in his face right then, but instead we said fine, just bring the tasting without any alterations. Later, when that course rolled around, the tuna dish came out. The portion turned out to be maybe 50% larger than the tasting-menu portions: six bites instead of four. Whatever. To the extent this is a thread about Per Se, I'm not sure if French Laundry experience is relevant, and when I dined at Per Se they seemed entirely accommodating, so it was probably a communication glitch of some sort, or a new waiter.

[Jason Perlow]

I'm guessing that Thomas knows that he's dealing with New Yorkers now.

[Jaybert41]

New Yorkers or not, can you really get too worked up over the generalization that such a restaurant might frown upon reconfiguring the chefs tasting menu? If you want it your way why not go with the ala carte menu like so many other people do in most restaurants?
As it pertains to New York in particular, a majority of the restaurants that I am familiar with request that the majority of/or the entire table order the tasting menu. I think that what TFL and now Per Se does in regard to parallel menus and special substitutions is pretty admirable. The Cooks Tour Epsidose a few years ago is a true testament to that. For example, Eric Ripert was blown away by their four way menu and commented on how daring it was for a chef to attempt such a thing.
It does sound like the tuna substitution that Fat Guy previously mentioned at FL was a definitely some sort of a glitch, these guys are known for being more then flexible when it comes to accommodating and I think that it is pretty incredible.

[jmax]

HELP! PER SE Res to TRADE: 9:00pm tomorrow for 4!!!

I had a reservation at Per Se for a Saturday night before the fire. It was rescheduled for tomorrow night, Saturday May 15, at 9:00pm for four people. Unfortunately, due to a last-minute unavoidable crisis I cannot use the reservation! Instead of just giving it up and waiting at least two more months, I am hoping that somebody who has an upcoming reservation would rather use this one. Anyone who is interested, please call me at 202 302-3161 as soon as possible. Thanks!

[Mulcahy]

Quote

It does sound like the tuna substitution that Fat Guy previously mentioned at FL was a definitely some sort of a glitch, these guys are known for being more then flexible when it comes to accommodating and I think that it is pretty incredible.

When my husband didn't eat a dish at the FL (he wasn't feeling well) our waiter asked him, point blank, "There are dozens of chefs in the kitchen who will make anything you would like, are you sure there is nothing you would prefer?"

We were stunned. I would expect Per Se to be just as accomodating.

[rich]

I called May 12 about 3:00 p.m. (five hours after the phone lines opened that day, and got through within one minute) for a July 12 reservation for four (wife's birthday). Was offered a 10:00 p.m. but that would be too late simply because it would mean a five-hour wait in the city or traveling back and forth to Staten Island twice. I asked about something in the 7-8 p.m. frame and was told they would put me on a waiting list.

After I gave them my name, the reservationist said "...oh you were here on Feb. 17th for your 25th Anniversary. We will make every effort to accommodate you. We'll let you know about an earlier time as soon as possible."

I thought that was nice. I do have a backup at Bouley for 7:30. I may be wrong, but I think I will get something earlier - just a feeling.