[pastramionrye]

bpearis, on May 5 2004, 11:47 AM, said:

Someone needs to see Tampopo.

I have seen it...it is quite an amazing movie...and i went into it extremely skeptical.

[rdailey]

Quote

Presumably not at Per Se, but their reservation computer definitely knows everyone that's dined at the French Laundry. I imagine they would be willing to provide "regular" status to friends from the Napa restaurant, as well.

How often do you think would one need to go to FL or Per Se to be considered a regular?

How do they distinguish the regulars when they call in to make a reservation?

[gmi3804]

rdailey, on May 6 2004, 12:01 PM, said:

Quote

Presumably not at Per Se, but their reservation computer definitely knows everyone that's dined at the French Laundry. I imagine they would be willing to provide "regular" status to friends from the Napa restaurant, as well.

How often do you think would one need to go to FL or Per Se to be considered a regular?

How do they distinguish the regulars when they call in to make a reservation?

I'm a "regular" at TRU here in Chicago. They know me by name when I call. But then again, the same person always answers the phone.

We had dinner there this past Saturday, and our server told us that the staff was alerted to the fact that we were going to be in during that evening's pre-service staff meeting.

It took us about three visits to get recognized. Since, we've hosted several dinner parties there, and even had Rick Tramonto and Gale Gand to our house to do a dinner for ten, having won their services in a Celebrity Chef auction for the benefit of Chicago's Green City Markets.

We are not bigwigs in the "industry;" we're simply two people who love great food and wine and dining experiences, from fast food to foie gras.

[dccd]

robyn, on May 5 2004, 07:15 PM, said:

Fat Guy, on May 5 2004, 12:41 AM, said:

...That's my supposition, at least.

Maybe you're wrong?

I don't know - but I've never had a problem making a reservation at a nice restaurant. Of course - I do have my rules. Usually no Friday or Saturday nights. No prime time high season in a place where the season is short. No attempts to get in the first couple of months at the hottest new restaurant openings. Etc. And - if necessary (usually isn't) - I'll use the concierge desk if I'm staying in a hotel where I think the concierge desk has some clout - I'll even call the concierge desk to make the reservation a month in advance.

And then there is of course the fall back rule. That if you can't get a reservation you want a month or two in advance - try being a walk-in the night you want to eat. That's obviously not a great option if you're talking about a restaurant in a small town in France (and you don't happen to live in that small town) - but it's a reasonable thing to try in New York (if the walk-in doesn't pan out - it's not like you're going to starve). Robyn

excellent point, Robyn!

Although, I don't get to eat "nicely" (read: high end dining) as often as I would like to, when the opportunity arrives, I typically don't have that much trouble making a reservation. Maybe I just get lucky with my infrequent (once a month, at the most) dare-to-be-great dinners. Then again, I am also from the school of thought that thinks dinner at 6:30 can be just as enlightening as at 8:30 or 9, if not more so. Fresh legs on the cooks in the kitchen, fresh products just sliced and diced, and not any "difficulties" to have them in a sour mood, yet. Come to think of it, I may try for a 6:30 reso at Per Se when I try.

I too, have used the walk-in attempts at several places and have been successful more times than not. However, I usually reserve that for when my companions and I just HAVE to try somebody's food. Many times the restaurants will have last minute cancellations and are happy to accomodate us.

All in all, even when things don't work out, I just love to eat out in this city - I am just as grateful for the exciting last minute dash as well as the month long anticipation of an experience like a dinner at Per Se. So long as the food is delish and I am with my friends, I am happy.

[rich]

docsconz, on May 4 2004, 09:34 PM, said:

They can't have too many "regulars" yet, can they?

I was a regular at Per Se until they re-opened. Since I ate there on one of the five days they were open until the fire, they considered me a regular.

But now, alas, I 'm just another pretty credit card number.

[dccd]

That's funny RICH! You and your party probably represented 2% of their income at the time... You were definitely a regular!

I do think, however, if you were to call for a reservation, you might find that they will have marked when you ate there last, how many times you have eaten there, how many people you had in your party, might even have what you ate, and will most probably be noted in their books as a RETURN if nothing else.

[adrober]

People have been e-mailing me to ask how my family got the reservation, so I thought I'd tell the group: we were very lucky, the concierge at the hotel where we stayed was offered a table for the weekend we were coming. He was nice enough to offer it to us. For his protection (and safety) I'll keep the hotel under wraps, but the point is that another strategy for reservation-getting might be the systematic harassment of hotel concierges. Good luck!

[StInGeR]

adrober, on May 7 2004, 08:37 AM, said:

People have been e-mailing me to ask how my family got the reservation, so I thought I'd tell the group: we were very lucky, the concierge at the hotel where we stayed was offered a table for the weekend we were coming. He was nice enough to offer it to us. For his protection (and safety) I'll keep the hotel under wraps, but the point is that another strategy for reservation-getting might be the systematic harassment of hotel concierges. Good luck!

Why protect him?? That's what a concierge is for!!!! Especially in NYC
Cheers
Tom

[Jaybert41]

[QUOTE]I do think, however, if you were to call for a reservation, you might find that they will have marked when you ate there last, how many times you have eaten there, how many people you had in your party, might even have what you ate, and will most probably be noted in their books as a RETURN if nothing else.


This is all done by the Open Table Software which many restauarnts use.

[rich]

adrober, on May 7 2004, 11:37 AM, said:

People have been e-mailing me to ask how my family got the reservation, so I thought I'd tell the group: we were very lucky, the concierge at the hotel where we stayed was offered a table for the weekend we were coming. He was nice enough to offer it to us. For his protection (and safety) I'll keep the hotel under wraps, but the point is that another strategy for reservation-getting might be the systematic harassment of hotel concierges. Good luck!

I find that very interesting. I guess Per Se filled its first couple of weeks by offering tables to hotels (I'm sure the Mandarin got a few) and probably some friends, VIPs and the media.

I wonder why they chose not to open the phone lines.

[oakapple]

Quote

This is all done by the Open Table Software which many restauarnts use.

Per Se is not currently listed on OpenTable.com.

[bushey]

Looking for a place to have a special dinner on Saturday, June 5th. I figured it never hurts to try, so I called the other day at about 11:00 and got right through to someone. I politely explained that I'd just made plans to be in NYC for a reunion and wondered if I could be put on the waiting list for dinner on the 5th or lunch on the 6th. The woman I spoke to was very nice. I gave her my contact number and then we chatted for a bit about how busy the restaurant is, etc. She said "We really want to be able to accomodate as many people as want to eat here".

Who knows? Maybe I'll get lucky .

[Nathan]

oakapple, on May 7 2004, 09:34 AM, said:

Quote

This is all done by the Open Table Software which many restauarnts use.

Per Se is not currently listed on OpenTable.com.

Almost all restaurants that have a computerized reservation system (as opposed to using a pen and a day planner) use software made by Open Table -- that's actually their primary product.

The online-booking site, opentable.com, is a spin-off which they offer to restaurants but far, far more restaurants use their software than use the site.

[Fat Guy]

Welcome to eGullet, Nathan.

[Jaybert41]

[Almost all restaurants that have a computerized reservation system (as opposed to using a pen and a day planner) use software made by Open Table -- that's actually their primary product.

The online-booking site, opentable.com, is a spin-off which they offer to restaurants but far, far more restaurants use their software than use the site. ]



Precisely. Per Se uses OpenTable for guest information.

[robyn]

dccd, on May 7 2004, 01:47 AM, said:

All in all, even when things don't work out, I just love to eat out in this city - I am just as grateful for the exciting last minute dash as well as the month long anticipation of an experience like a dinner at Per Se.  So long as the food is delish and I am with my friends, I am happy.

I've told this story before - and I hope I won't bore people by telling it a second time.

My husband and I were "walk-in's" at about 8:30 at Alain Ducasse (first and only time we ate there - it was terrific). How did that happen? We had reservations at 8 at Jean Georges - on the patio. It rained like the dickens that night - and - when we arrived at the restaurant - we were told the only place we could eat was the bar (which was packed end to end). It was our 30th anniversary - and that didn't seem very romantic to me (I think it would have been more romantic to eat a take out pizza in bed in the hotel). So we hit the street. We were staying in the Essex House - so I thought of Alain Ducasse. My husband said - why not - worst that could happen is they're full. But they weren't. We were seated and had glasses of champagne in our hands in less than 10 minutes. Moral of story - never hurts to try. Robyn

[robyn]

StInGeR, on May 7 2004, 10:45 AM, said:

adrober, on May 7 2004, 08:37 AM, said:

People have been e-mailing me to ask how my family got the reservation, so I thought I'd tell the group: we were very lucky, the concierge at the hotel where we stayed was offered a table for the weekend we were coming.  He was nice enough to offer it to us.  For his protection (and safety) I'll keep the hotel under wraps, but the point is that another strategy for reservation-getting might be the systematic harassment of hotel concierges.  Good luck!

Why protect him?? That's what a concierge is for!!!! Especially in NYC
Cheers
Tom

You're absolutely right. That's what a good concierge does in NYC - or anywhere else. They're particularly wonderful when you're planning to visit a country where you don't speak the language very well.

The flipside of using a concierge for an especially difficult reservation is using a concierge for an easy reservation. The concierge will get "points" with someone for booking the reservation - which he will be able to redeem sometime down the road (if he books you and your party of six on Monday in low season - perhaps he'll get an extra table for 4 on Saturday in high season). I've found that most good concierges always appreciate your business (at our last hotel stay - the concierge even gave us a nice glossy restaurant magazine - not a big deal - a $5 item - but appreciated on our end). Robyn

[hillvalley]

adrober, don't apologize for your post! Some of us drooled our way through it. So what if you haven't had many fine dining expereinces. So what if you aren't a professional food writer. Chefs across the country are getting their food porn from you. Enjoy it!


While you were dining, did you find yourself paying more attention to the food because you knew you would be reporting back to us? When I have great food experiences now I find myself paying more attention so I can describe it here later.


Finally, stopping complaining about what time you have to eat there. Just be glad you get to eat there. Then come and share every moment with those of us who are eating vicariously through you.

This post has been edited by hillvalley: 07 May 2004 - 08:18 PM

[Fat Guy]

Not a boring story at all. Maybe on another thread I'll bore you with my 10:30 Alain Ducasse walk-in for dessert only. I've preached the gospel of guerilla reservations tactics many times, online and in print. For the purposes of this conversation, however, one needs to distinguish walk-ins, wait-list reservations, cancellation pickups, concierge leverage, et al., from standard reservations. When the book at a popular restaurant gets opened, be it 30 or 60 days before the date or whatever, standard operating procedure in every restaurant where I've been given access to this information (and that's probably at least 10 of the top NYC restaurants) is to hold back all the prime-day/time tables for potential VIP use. Different restaurants define those dates and times differently: for some it might be that they only block out the 8 and 8:30 tables on Friday and Saturday nights. For others, particularly the smaller places, on the busiest nights it might mean blocking out every table except the pre-6pm and post-9:30pm ones. Over time, some of those tables may get released if they're not filling up with VIPs, but there will usually be a few held back right up until the afternoon of the date. As for what Per Se's policy is, I have no idea. If it follows the standard pattern of the top New York restaurants, it does what I've described here and above. If it follows a more "egalitarian" approach, maybe it does something else. Has anybody here been offered a prime-time reservation lately? Or maybe someone who is friendly with Keller can just find out. I think a lot of this speculation would simply go away if the restaurant's management behaved in a more forthcoming manner, rather than with all this double-secret opening stuff.

[oakapple]

Quote

I think a lot of this speculation would simply go away if the restaurant's management behaved in a more forthcoming manner, rather than with all this double-secret opening stuff.

Perhaps a tad unfair, as I don't recall any restaurant issuing a press release about how their reservations policy works. Generally the only thing you know is: they take them, or they don't.

[Fat Guy]

That comment wasn't about reservations policies; it was about the double-secret opening. And it's not about press releases; what we're seeing here are mixed signals being sent to customers. I've covered plenty of restaurant openings and can't recall one so shrouded in mystery. Not that anybody cares about most openings. But this is the most widely anticipated one since Ducasse, and is receiving a tremendous amount of media and public attention. It's simply in the restaurant's best interests to be more forthcoming here.

[phaelon56]

Adrober... or someone... anyone... please tell me that they have good coffee and better yet... properly made espresso. It will be so encouraging if that's the case.

[Lreda]

Called this morning based on the fact that we were on the waiting list for date last week but were obviously not called based upon the fire. Called at 10:20 am, they picked up in 6 minutes and I booked for 7/8 @10pm. Works for me. I'll have lunch somewhere, light. Take a nap and head over. booked a table for 4, have no idea who to ask to join us. That'll be the fun over the next few weeks.

[adrober]

I thought today's Sunday Styles' piece on the Per Se cocktail unintentionally got at what I was trying to get at:

"The Per Se [cocktail] is as cerebrally cool as it is cold to taste. It is also so subtle as to be potentially banal. You have to hold its cultured thought tightly, to get to the bottom of it."

I think this describes the meal itself and explains why, despite the good efforts of everyone involved, I was slow to warm up to it. To enjoy it you have to make a cognitive leap. "Ah this is delicious because the crispy Carolina rice provides a textural component that contrasts nicely with the foie gras." The yummy doesn't happen on an intuitive level.

To me, this sort of dining is a genre just like Korean Barbeque is a genre. I'm not critiquing the restaurant, I'm critiquing the genre. Maybe one day I'll embrace the genre the same way that I might one day embrace Westerns or mariachi music. But it seems rather bizarre to declare a meal great just because it is prepared with extreme precision and flair. This, to me, fits into the category of Food as Science. The image it conjures is a chemistry lab with beakers and bunsen burners and a mad scientist with goggles flitting around with tweezers and a blowtorch. I prefer the image offered by Paul Bertolli in his preface to Chez Panisse Cooking (forgive the heavy quoting):

...as we moved along briskly, my nose, trained from infancy to sniff, told me, in so many sniffs, so to speak, that we were approaching the source of a strangely seductive culinary smell. Illusory? Successive sniffs confirmed its reality. And yet, where was its source?....

The ruin was what we expected and its address was 249 Via Appia Antica. It had an opening as for a door and another as for a window. I peeked in and saw a lady stirring a skillet. As if I had been expected, she invited me in and told me her name, Signora Coscia. There wre seven children; her husband was in a sanatorium. Victims of the war, they were waiting for the government to provide them living quarters....

As soon as I had smelled what Signora Coscia was stirring in her skillet, my nose told me what she herself confirmed: wild mushrooms. She and her children had gathered them early that morning. They were now being sauteed in olive oil, garlic, parsley, and nepitella, colloquially called erba da funghi, mushroom grass, the appropriate herb for mushrooms....

This scene captures perfectly what I love about cooking and what I expect from a restaurant, regardless of its status. I want authenticity and history and passion and meaning; I want smells that saturate the nostrils, I want a love for food that transcends money, and power, and sterile perfectionism. What's so great about perfection, anyway? I'll trade perfection for passion any day. I'll take Nina Simone's rather off-key "I Shall Be Released" over the most trained aria in a heartbeat.

And sure, sometimes there's both. Stanley Kubrick comes to mind. But the reason my initial review compared fine dining to death is that I didn't get the smell Paul Bertiolli describes in his introduction. There was nothing mystical about Per Se, just like there was nothing mystical about Charlie Trotter's. Perfection, yes. Cold, calculated perfection.

If, to quote Austin Powers, "cerebrally cool" is your bag baby, more power to you. Per Se will serve you very well. I'm not saying the Emperor has no clothes. I'm saying his clothes are perfectly stitched, intelligently coordinated, yet--despite it all--lifeless. I take exception to the idea that this is dining at its greatest. I've had a week to mull it over, and these are the sentiments that remain. I'm sorry I can't be more enthused.

[NeroW]

adrober, bravo.

[russ parsons]

adrober, on May 10 2004, 04:16 AM, said:

And sure, sometimes there's both. Stanley Kubrick comes to mind. But the reason my initial review compared fine dining to death is that I didn't get the smell Paul Bertiolli describes in his introduction. There was nothing mystical about Per Se, just like there was nothing mystical about Charlie Trotter's. Perfection, yes. Cold, calculated perfection.

well said adrober. i haven't eaten at per se, so i wouldn't dream of arguing with your description. but i did have a couple of thoughts:

1) aren't we lucky to live in a world where we don't have to choose between the two styles, or more accurately, where we can? i've had plenty of meals like bertolli describes and i would never want to give them up. but i can't imagine having to give up those amazing flights of fancy that chefs like keller provide, either (incidentally, it's curious that you quote bertolli on this since, personally, he is one of the most cerebral, least earthy chefs i know ... and that's not at all intended to be a criticism).

2) again, i haven't eaten at per se, but i have eaten pretty often at the french laundry and the thing that inspires me about that restaurant is exactly that keller is able to wed the intellectual and the passionate. almost every time i eat there i have a dish that makes me throw back my head with laughter at the surprising combination of flavors and the sheer unexpected deliciousness of it.

3) i seem to recall that you are just beginning your eating adventures. do you think your opinions might change in a couple of years? one of the odd things about eating in this country is that everyone expects to start out an expert. anything that is great takes some learning about (and that's not just for fine dining ... witness the passionate and learned arguments over barbecue). do you think that further down the road and with a little more experience, some of the subtleties that seem cold now might intrigue you more? there is a common pattern in wine appreciation: people start out with cabernets and zinfandels, the bigger and riper the better. then they move on to pinot noir. subtlety takes time and experience to grasp, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

[bilrus]

russ parsons, on May 10 2004, 01:11 PM, said:

adrober, on May 10 2004, 04:16 AM, said:

  There was nothing mystical about Per Se, just like there was nothing mystical about Charlie Trotter's.  Perfection, yes.  Cold, calculated perfection. 

2) again, i haven't eaten at per se, but i have eaten pretty often at the french laundry and the thing that inspires me about that restaurant is exactly that keller is able to wed the intellectual and the passionate. almost every time i eat there i have a dish that makes me throw back my head with laughter at the surprising combination of flavors and the sheer unexpected deliciousness of it.

Since very few people here on eGullet (or anywhere for that matter) have eaten at both French Laundry and Per Se so far it will be interesting to see if the same sense of the combination of attempted perfection and passion and warmth that so many sense at French Laundry in its bucolic Yountville setting will translate to a restaurant in a high rise in the middle of the businest city in the country.

ADrober - was it the combiantion of the setting and the food or jsut the food itself that left you cold?

[docsconz]

I for one enjoy both the "earthy" cuisine a la Slow Food and the creative genius of chefs like Keller or Adria. The one thing that must be common with both is great taste. If that is there, then the "cerebralness" and whimsy of the creative chef add another element of enjoyment and to my mind is worth the extra money. Without great taste, creativity by itself is not sufficient for a great meal.

[rich]

docsconz, on May 10 2004, 03:21 PM, said:

Without great taste, creativity by itself is not sufficient for a great meal.

Agreed, without great taste nothing else matters.

[Fat Guy]

bilrus, on May 10 2004, 02:09 PM, said:

Since very few people here on eGullet (or anywhere for that matter) have eaten at both French Laundry and Per Se so far it will be interesting to see if the same sense of the combination of attempted perfection and passion and warmth that so many sense at French Laundry in its bucolic Yountville setting will translate to a restaurant in a high rise in the middle of the businest city in the country.

There's a subset of the audience that seems hell-bent on whining about "the mall" and "the food court," but my experience of Per Se was that it was the urban alter ego to the French Laundry. Both settings are stunning expressions of their genres.