[VivreManger]

Last week I was in LA and managed half a pastrami at Langer's. I would have ordered the whole sandwich, but I had been to Roscoe's Chicken & Waffles for breakfast and that cramped my style, among other parts of my body.

Unfortunately my Katz's experience is decades old so that basis of comparison is denied me. However I will be in NY next month and hope to get downtown to try a pastrami sandwich. My more recent basis of comparison is Montreal smoked meat, with samples from Schwartz's, Snowdon Del and the Main, this past summer.

Langer's is much less spicy and tangy than Montreal meat, hardly a surprise. It was also noticably more tender. The overall taste was excellent. The meat was flavorful and moist.

As you may know in contrast to Katz's in NYC, Langer's does not have counter service, but I was able to make my preference for medium fatty, not Hollywood lean, made know through the waitress and the sandwich arrived as ordered.

Some claim that Langer's is the best in North America. I would not go there, but the rye bread is good -- better than the standard issue in Montreal. The mustard choices are better.

The ideal sandwich would be Montreal smoked meat spiciness with Langer's tender juiciness and superior accompaniments. On the other hand, the pickles are better in Montreal.

Next month, Katz's, God willing.

In March I am contemplating a smoked meat March madness marathon -- hitting all the major purveyors for a taste-out on and off the Main (Montreal talk for St. Lawrence). Anybody else interested? I would also like to try the new kid in town, Deli Cieux.

Do respond if anybody else is interested in a smoked meat crawl?

[SteveW]

Going by memory, I believe Steven Shaw(FG) said Langer's in LA double steams their pastrami(same thing that Ben's Best in NYC claims). Meaning they both steam their pastrami approx. twice as long as the others. That would account for its tenderness.

BTW, I'm glad you ordered your pastrami medium-fat(always my preference for Montreal smoked meat, here in Montreal).

-Steve

Fat Guy, on May 6 2003, 09:46 PM, said:

The manner in which the meat is steamed and sliced is also critical. In one report I read about Langer's in LA, I recall one of the owners stating that one of their big trademarks is that they steam the meat for about twice as long as the average deli. This is no doubt going to produce a more tender, almost-falling-apart product.

edit: Just above is what Steven Shaw actually wrote

This post has been edited by SteveW: 25 December 2003 - 05:22 PM

[Kenk]

VivreManger,

Sign me up. This is the type of cultural activity I like to participate in.

Do you have an itinerary to propose?

Is this an all Smoked Meat Crawl?

[SteveW]

Vivre, I'm certainly interested in your March Smoked Meat Marathon. What's is your plan on how you're going to attack the smoked meat establishments in March?

-Steve

[VivreManger]

The detailed plan will depend on the March weather, but I have in mind a Saturday in mid to late March. Everything is to be old-fashioned of course. The following list is a bare minimum of four with others to be added as interest and expertise determine:

Schwartz's
The Main
Deli Cieux

in NDG
Snowdon Del



further afield, perhaps??,

Lester's, on rue Bernard, in Outremont, their standard issue and dry-aged
Smoked Meat Pete, opened on Ile Perrot, a few years back,
Abie's, on boulevard St-Jean, on the West Island.

Back in May, Jacob Richler did an article in the National Post sampling some, but not all of these, but his test was done with meat couriered and then warmed up in Toronto -- not I believe a true test. He is going to be back in Montreal in March and I am hoping to rope him into this venture as well.

Ben's should not even be imagined. It is out.

On the other hand if along the way we need a break, we could stop at Coco Rico for some chicken and we might need a few beers between sandwiches.

[Kenk]

We can use Ben's to put us over the edge.
Industrial smoked meat covered with gravey!
Ohhh I am dizzy already!

Are you bringing the mustard? or is it BYOM!

[carswell]

VivreManger, on Dec 29 2003, 10:22 AM, said:

in NDG
Snowdon Del

While I'm unsure as to exactly where the northern limit of NDG lies (my guess is Côte-Saint-Luc Road), the east side of Décarie between Queen Mary and Isabella is most assuredly several blocks north of it. And while you might take refuge in a technicality (since the recent municipal mergers, the area has been part of the unweildy Côte-des-Neiges–Notre-Dame-de-Grâce borough), Montrealers continue to refer to the SD's neighbourhood as Snowdon.

[VivreManger]

Sorry, I stand corrected. Snowdon it is.

This post has been edited by VivreManger: 29 December 2003 - 04:03 PM

[carswell]

VivreManger, on Dec 29 2003, 05:24 PM, said:

Sorry, I stand corrected.  Snowdon it is.

Aw, shucks. And here I was marshalling my arguments...

One thing I've discovered in the last few minutes, though, is that it's surprisingly hard to find a map that shows the "city" limits of NDG. There's nothing especially useful on the Web. As I occasionally work for the city government, I have municipal directories of activiites and services going back to 1996, but even the premerger maps deliniate only the NDG-CDN "area" (shades of things to come). And I've not found a description of the boundries of either the former municipality of NDG or the parish. Most of the northern and eastern borders are clear, as they are defined by the surrounding former municipalities (now boroughs) of Côte-Saint-Luc and Hampstead to the north and Westmount to the east. The northeast corner, the Décarie corridor, is the problem.

Psychologically speaking, NDG stops at Côte-Saint-Luc Road for most Montrealers I know. One block north of CSL Road is Snowdon Street and just north of the corner of Snowdon and Décarie is the Snowdon post office. My detailed premerger map of Montreal and environs has the neighbourhood descriptor "Snowdon" printed just to the northeast of that (in smaller type than that used for the NDG and CDN descriptors, though; I don't believe Snowdon was ever a muncipality in its own right, unlike NDG and CDN). Yet the NDG municipal electoral district goes up the east side of Décarie all the way to Queen Mary (click here then click on the district map).

Municipal and historical society offices are closed for the holidays, so I probably won't be able to pursue this further until the new year. Maybe someone following our exchange will know and volunteer the information.

-carswell

PS I'd be willing to bet that, while you won't find spittle at Schwartz's on your smoked meat marathon, you may find spam at Déli cieux...

[VivreManger]

Actually I have just learned that Deli Cieux has closed. Details to follow.

So spam and spittle may very well be all that waits there.

As for the boundary question. My Montreal-born wife offers two names for the area where Snowdon Del is located. Either Snowdon or Decarie.

Queen Mary and Cte. St-Luc Blvd. are key dividers. In addition rhe Decarie Expressway has constructed a physical and psychological boundary, whatever else may exist in parish, municipal, and precinct records.

[AndrewM]

I wouldn't bother with Lester's. It's in the neighbourhood, so I'll go there on occasion when I need a smoked meat fix and don't want to travel. Not bad but really not in the same league as Schwartz's or the Main. Now, I do remember having a really good smoked meat from some place in the Atwater market. Can't remember the name as I rarely go to Atwater, usually Jean Talon. I've always meant to go back and see if that smoked meat was all a dream...

[jersey13]

I guess it's probably considered too far west to be convenient, but I just love the smoked meat at Smoked Meat Pete's in Ile Perrot.

[SteveW]

jersey13, on Dec 31 2003, 02:22 PM, said:

I guess it's probably considered too far west to be convenient, but I just love the smoked meat at Smoked Meat Pete's in Ile Perrot.

It's very convenient with the car, as its just off the 40 West highway at the Ile Perrot exit.

-Steve

[VivreManger]

As promised, in the Schwartz's, Langer's, Katz's, pastrami poll, my vote goes to Schwartz's. While it is not the most tender, it has the most taste.

Yesterday I ate at Katz's for the first time in nearly thirty years.

[hollywood]

VivreManger, on Jan 9 2004, 10:19 AM, said:

As promised, in the Schwartz's, Langer's, Katz's, pastrami poll, my vote goes to Schwartz's. While it is not the most tender, it has the most taste.

Yesterday I ate at Katz's for the first time in nearly thirty years.

Any photos?

[VivreManger]

Sorry. I am digitally challenged, but verbally equal to the task of describing all three, which I will do when I can find the time.

Suffice it to say that Katz's looks good. It is a bigger sandwich than Langer's and probably Schwartz's as well. It is less expensive than Langer's and more expensive than Schwartz's.

[davidkemp]

the other day my friends brought me to georges smoke meat on saint martin, first time there ,to my suprise i got one of the best smoke meat sandwiches in my life,a touch better than schwartz.my friends told me he is ex employee of schwartz.
i have been going back everyday for a sandwich,i am hooked.

[SteveW]

Are you talking about Saint-Martin in Laval? Did you check their smoked meat pakaging(is it strictly a straight commercial product from one of the smoked meat suppliers or what)?

-Steve

[davidkemp]

yes on saint martin laval,you are wrong about the packaging , there is no packaging ,this aint no commercial smoked meat, he makes his own .he was working at schwartz for years.

[davidkemp]

just got the address

Georges deli restaurant
3750, boulevard Saint-Martin Ouest,
Chomedey, QC
H7T 1B1
450-681-9248

[SteveW]

I'll be there...soon... very soon.

-Steve

[davidkemp]

brought some friends from out of town to georges smoke meat.loyal schwartz fans , prefered georges to schwartz ,not only that they bought a couple of briskets for home.we talked to the owner and in fact he used to work at schwartz for years preparing the briskets.he now prepares them for himself.
you are wrong mr.steve this aint commercial stuff.

[VivreManger]

Look's like Deli Cieux, now closed, is off the list, and Georges gets added to the March Smoked Meat Marathon. Closer to the date we will have to confer on the list and logistics.

By the way did your brisket buying friends bring their meat to the States or keep it within Canada?

After the Canadian mad cow concern, US customs started cracking down on imported meat. Previously they seemed indifferent to the matter. Since the US developed its own mad cow problem -- allegedly with Canadian help -- I have not crossed the border so I don't know what is now on US customs hit list.

[SteveW]

Went to Georges deli Wednesday for their smoked meat, based on Dave's comments here. Their smoked meat that I tried was very good, just below IMO Snowdon deli & Schwartz's. But it does show some potential, that I will give them a try one or two more times in the coming weeks, before fully deciding how good it is. Got to add that the smoked meat that I had there, was expertly hand sliced(the slices were perfect). However it a bit of a misnomer, when they claim at the restaurant, that George 'with 30 years experience.' Georges deli has been opened for 5-6 years only. Previous to that he was at Schwartz's(not sure for how many years). Great find Dave. I didn't think they would make their own dry-cured smoked meat, because so few delis in Montreal still do it(Schwartz's, The Main, Abie's...& now Georges deli).

-Steve

[davidkemp]

out of town friends are gone but the briskets stayed behind.we devoured them yesterday night ,we steamed the briskets for about an hour and a half.we paired them up with some cherry cokes. just as good at home.

[VivreManger]

This is to confirm the Smoked Meat marathon described in my message. Please PM if you are interested in participating. Once I have a critical mass I will post more information so others can join us.

At the moment SteveW and Kenk have expressed interest. I don't know if DaveKemp wants in as well. I have in mind Saturday, 20 March.

[gus_tatory]

i'd love to go with you guys, but i am a smoked meat wuss.
under no circumstances could i eat more than one smoked meat sandwich, and so this might not be the right field trip for me.
but enjoy yourselves! and bring Tums...

[VivreManger]

Actually I have thought of that problem.

If there are enough of us, we can divide up the sandwiches so the wusses need only take a 1/4 or less. I myself have wondered what would happen to me after the second or third target so I need all the help and tums we can muster (mustard).

Four or five destinations are probably the max: Schwartz's, The Main, Snowdon Del, Pete's (in the West island, I believe) and Georges in Laval (I believe). Those last two will take long enough to get to, that by then we would be ready for supper anyway.

[VivreManger]

In preparation, I have shed about 8 pounds during the last two weeks and hope to lose another few. One eGulleteer who turned down the invitation suggested that we bring “a cardiologist and defibrillator along just in case”. Up to this moment, Kenk gus_tatory, and Riboflavinjoe and perhaps one or two others have expressed interest. My car can accommodate four beyond me. Though if the girth expands it may be a bit tight in the back. If any more want to join – and more are most welcome -- we will need another car and driver.

The idea was inspired in part by a conference honoring Mordecai Richler in which I will participate at the Institute for the Study of Canada at McGill. I may gather a few other Rabelasian types from that meeting so the more cars the better.

At this point I must pose a question of eGullet etiquette. Hitherto I have described this in general terms w/o reference to specific dates, times, and places – these have been confined to PMs. How specific may one be in announcing this event? I have no claim to making this an official eGullet event, but I would like some guidelines.

[gus_tatory]

VivreManger, on Mar 4 2004, 01:58 PM, said:

Four or five destinations are probably the max:  Schwartz's, The Main, Snowdon Del, Pete's (in the West island, I believe)...

ok, we need to tell them at Smoked Meat Pete's that their radio ad is vaguely offensive.
on CJAD radio today: "You can't beat Pete's meat."
how does this stuff get past the CRTC?

edit to add: CRTC = Canadian Radio and Telecommunications Commission.

This post has been edited by gus_tatory: 04 March 2004 - 09:09 PM